I don't go for the big games. In fact, if I'm going to demo a game in the Hall, it's very much most likely to be a small press game. I also don't spend a lot of my time demoing games. I'm running and playing in LARPs/RPGs most of my time. There was a critical mass that was reached for those sorts of games where you got a lot of players *and* a lot of games run. But attendance has gone beyond that point, with no positive effect on these sort of games.

Here's a question for anyone--not being subtle, honestly looking for opinions. What would be missing if GC attendance was at 30k? Let's say that attendance dropped just organically, just fewer people wanted to attend, but still enough to make it the largest gaming con in the country. What is there now that wouldn't be there then?

For reference, from 2003-2010 (all Indy years), attendance was between 25k and 30k. The last years of Milwaukee varied pretty wildly. The last 5 years of Mecca (93-97) were in that same range, 20k-30k, while the Midwest Express Center years (98-2002) dipped to the 19k-25k range. It's been the last years, 2011 on, that have seen the real explosion: 36k, 41k, 49k, 56k, 61k. After decades of relative stability, five years of explosive growth.

So what have those five years added, specifically, to the GC experience? What events? What debuting games? What is there now, because of those numbers (not just new games that weren't out then) that wasn't there then? Honestly want to know.

I think there are more concerts now than there were back then.  There are more events overall, and so I would guess there are probably more game systems being played, but I don't know that for sure. 

The dealer hall keeps getting bigger too, but that may be just because it can - before the ICC was expanded there just wasn't anywhere to put more dealers. 

It seems like I see a lot more costumes than I used to too, which is cool.  It may be that the same percentage of folks wear them now as did then, but now there's twice as many, or it may be that the percentage has gone up too, I'm not sure. 

And to me, this is why I love Gen Con.  If I want to go to a con and play a bunch of new board games, I'll go to Origins.  If I want to play a weekend of l5r I'll go to KC Game Fair.  If I want to do 6 different larps, I'll do Intercon.  If I want to hear geek music, I'll do Magfest.  If I want to do a line of coke off a stripper's @$$ I'll go to Dragoncon.  If I want to do a bit of everything, I go to Gen Con.

Filled out the survey...but it matters not as none of fall, winter or spring work well for me unless the Con is very close to home i.e. Seattle or Vancouver.  A second one in the early summer - say, somewhere between about May 15 and July 15 - would get my complete attention no matter where it is, within reason.

Also disappointed that while Atlanta and Orlando (both way down south-east) are on the options list there's nothing at all to the west - no Seattle, no Las Vegas, nothing in California, I don't even think Denver was on the list - to balance those options out and give us west-coast types something to vote for.  There's also no Canadian options e.g. Toronto to take advantage of the usually-lower (and currently much lower) dollar here.

So I ended up voting for Indy again as at least it's a known quantity and all in all isn't a bad place for a Con.
 

It's definitely added more events. You can even get your exercise with the orc stomp run! It's added enough things that there literally IS something for everyone now. It's also taken over downtown. Used to be only the RAM catered to the gamers with the themed menus and such. Now a LOT of the restaurants do and I love it. Smaller cons don't get that at all. Most of the time the surrounding area doesn't know, or even much CARE that the gamers are there.

To tie in with more events, at a smaller con that offers varied programming, you're going to run into the same group of players at every slot. With Gen Con, if there is someone you didn't really care for one game, the chances are huge that they won't be in the next game. Because there isn't just ONE slot of Shadowrun, or D&D, or whatnot being run, there are 8, 10, 20. Also because of this, the chance to meet someone new who you DO get along with and like skyrockets. I think my friends list for gen con grows each year. 

And yes, I had fun during the smaller gen cons too...there were swag bags with stuff back then, which was neat for souvenirs...I guess I like it anywhichway, but I wouldn't consciously make an effort to chop anything out to make it smaller. I also really hope they never have to cap attendance, so if opening a second one stops that, super cool. 

It's added more events, yes. But more events in proportion to the number of attendees or players? Not sure. A lot more events that you stand less of a chance of getting into isn't helpful. 

Things like the orc stomp, which I run every year, there's no evidence the number of attendees is what brought that about. In fact, it started when attendance was at the 30k number I've been talking about.

Its that jump from 30-60 in the last five years. What has *that* brought with it? We can say 'more games' but I'd want some numbers with those claims. Because the event list hasn't doubled while attendance has doubled, that's for sure. 

Btw, Denver was on the list, for whoever was wondering above. 

Weren't there more games released AT Gen Con in 2014 and 2015 than in previous years? With its growth, I think more publishers look at Gen Con as a viable release date alternative to Essen.  I'm curious what would happen to that trend if some number of Gen Con attendees are bled off to Gen Con #2. Would a smaller primary Gen Con set us back as far Gen Con being an attractive new release option?  Or is more complex than that, perhaps being a function of both attendance and placement in the calendar (a couple of months before Essen)?

Keep in mind, the numbers I'm talking about as 'ideal' IMO were only 5 years ago. There were plenty of new releases, movies, costumes, etc just five short years ago. The types of available LARPs and tabletops haven't changed significantly in 5 years. True Dungeon was around and booming. The SPA program was there. I just don't see what's been added in those 5 years, other than doubling attendance.

Think about it that way: if I'm correct and the number of playable events has not doubled in that timeframe, then the actual 'games per player' number has gone down in that time. Meaning that the number of games out there for an attendee to play and get into, in competition with all other attendees, has dropped.

So since we have gencon highprogrammer around, bless him, I went and looked...and went a few years back since I noticed ac /explosion/ from 2008 to 2009. Attendance has doubled and so has the number of events. But...look. The attendance spurt COINCIDED with a huge increase in event offerings. THAT has since held, more or less, steady...keeping pace with attendance.

So while yes, five years ago it was indeed a sweet spot (loads of events, manageable attendance) the percentage of events to people has kept pace. Kudos to Derek and team then on that one, because whatever spurred the jump in events offered, also spurred the attendance. Might be circumstantial evidence, I suppose. There were more events offered in 2007 but the percentage was still below 20. When were the SPA and cosplayer events added? Anyone know?

year # events     attendance     % events to people
2008 3438           28600                12.02%
2009 6936           27900                24.86%
2010 6658           30046                22.16%
2011 8707           36733                23.70%
2012 8992           41000                21.93%
2013 11727          49058                23.90%
2014 13285          56614                23.47%
2015 14950          61423                24.34%

Okay, so my impression about event numbers was wrong, that's good to know. I haven't been unable to get into any events I've wanted myself, but I'm an outlier--I run events, and the ones I play in are events that I generic into. So I almost never buy actual event tickets anymore.

Cool. 

I still maintain that hotel troubles and restaurant troubles and just the sheer crowding are negatives for me. I haven't eaten at the Ram, not coincidentally, in about five years. We try to, every year, different days. And every year it's a 2 hour wait (no joke) every time we try. Still haven't locked down an in-block room this year either. If we can't manage to, that will be a first for us as well (and we're resourceful :)

So I'm super thankful for the attendance numbers, that's awesome. It's evidence, unlike I suspected, that at least playing in games isn't getting harder. You're right, definite kudos to Derek and the GC crew for that.

I'm still firmly in the camp of having a better experience with 25k-30k. I never heard "Well I'm not going to GC anymore" because of the concerns I've listed here prior to the last five years. And while I have never said that, this many people does detract from it for me.

Although, caveat looking at your post again--how many of those events are SPA and cosplayer events? Things that aren't 'games'? The numbers are still well, well off from what I thought they were. But even more info would be cool. :)

I went back and kind of looked. SPA events actually began in either 2006 or 2007. TD separated into its own category around then too...but mostly it just looks like more of everything across the board. More board games, more card games, more RPG's, more. The only thing that has held steady, and this shocked me, is the number of events for kids. Just not very many in any year...maybe because the Pathfinder kids track was in rpg? Maybe because there is a separate area for kids in general? RPGA events also are pretty steady, so unlike, say, some of the other groups who have bumped up numbers of events to accommodate demand, RPGA has not. Not sure if this is because they don't want to, are unable to, or whatnot, but it may have some bearing on why WotC has departed gen con and left it to Baldman Games to represent. 

Being a GM for Catalyst, I know that THEY have been recruiting GM's and pestering Derek for more space pretty persistently, but I have no such insider info on other companies. I seem to recall Mr. Shiny mentioning that his group has bumped up Call of Cthulhu, so... anyone else have ideas? Perhaps Baldman and co have a limited budget (We will reimburse x amount of badges for gm's regardless of demand) or some such. As a player I know it is difficult to get into an RPGA game without a 'real ticket' unless it's that delve thing they sometimes offer, whereas Catalyst will do their darndest to seat any player who wants to play. Fairly sure Pathfinder will get you seated as well, but not as sure on this one.

Some games/companies/groups have always been harder to get into, yeah. Don't know about RPGA, haven't played in one of their tourneys since Mecca. (Never played in tourneys much at all, but discovered that NASCRAG was much better when I did want to.)

My take on kids events, only having been a gamer kid and having not run any games specifically for kids, is that as a kid I liked gaming with other kids, but I wasn't all too keen on playing with people significantly older...RPGs here, not boardgames. Tastes change in what you want to do during the game, for example. So I think a lot of adults may not be all too keen on playing an RPG at least with a kid, and also vice versa. And it's a harder thing, or perceived as harder, for a teen or preteen to run a game at Gen Con (although it can be done, and more kids should think about doing it...run a game and advertise that you want kids ONLY as players :)

Based on that data; I have only one observation: 2008 was my first Gen Con. :)
 

Also agree about the easier time finding seating if you go to a smaller name restaurant. But easier doesn't mean easy. I'd still rather have less crowds. If 30k people is less of a crowd. :)