Is there a chance Gen Con could be cancelled?
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Posted by squirecam stivmc

stivmc wrote:
egotrip115 wrote:
sovietprince wrote:
if it's vaxed only then there is no need for everyone to wear a mask

Fully vaccinated people can both get and transmit the virus.
Large groups indoors should be masked even if everyone is vaccinated.
Yes, vaxed people can get infected and transfer, in extremely low percentages
Hospitalized or fatal vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC. 7,525. out of 164 million people fully vaxed
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Masks prevent the sick from giving it to the non-sick; so everyone getting vaxed is the best answer.  Not making vaxed mask up for no good reason.
People dont want to be sick at all. Yes you are more protected from being hospitalized. But you can still get sick. No thanks to that.

The more people post on this, the more it proves Gencon made the correct decision.

 

Posted by stivmc squirecam

squirecam wrote:
stivmc wrote:
egotrip115 wrote:
sovietprince wrote:
if it's vaxed only then there is no need for everyone to wear a mask

Fully vaccinated people can both get and transmit the virus.
Large groups indoors should be masked even if everyone is vaccinated.
Yes, vaxed people can get infected and transfer, in extremely low percentages
Hospitalized or fatal vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC. 7,525. out of 164 million people fully vaxed
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Masks prevent the sick from giving it to the non-sick; so everyone getting vaxed is the best answer.  Not making vaxed mask up for no good reason.
People dont want to be sick at all. Yes you are more protected from being hospitalized. But you can still get sick. No thanks to that.The more people post on this, the more it proves Gencon made the correct decision.
 

Good luck with never being sick again.  Covid is here to stay, it is not going away unfortunately.  We will be dealing it for a while to come, just like the flu, and many others.  We can accept and deal with it, we won't completely defeat it anytime soon.  

If we want to return to normal encourage everyone to get the vaccine with facts; I don't see the best way to do this as more mask mandates and lockdowns.

I'm out.  GenCon does what it needs to do and must make it's own decisions.  We will see how it all works out in the end.

.

Posted by forar

Sheesh, first the Reddit thread, and now here?

I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

Vaccinations are good. Super good. Super Duper Double Plus Tournament Edition Alpha ++ Good. Masks are also good. Masked vaccinated people take those really small odds of infection (let alone serious infection) and make them even smaller.

Many of the games that we play at Gencon reward (or are outright reliant upon) having multiple lines of defense. One Counterspell in my Magic deck is good, more of them is better. Even if some of the others aren't as good as the OG Counter, having more of them is better than not.

It's a small piece of fabric. I don't understand why some so vehemently act like they're forced to wear a barney themed ball gag covered in ghost pepper sauce. It's... a mask. We've been wearing them for the last year and a half. Is it ideal? No. Hopefully 2022 will be something more closely resembling business as usual, but if the current evidence is that it will help, even just a little bit, then let's do that, shall we?

Posted by lore seeker forar

forar wrote:
Sheesh, first the Reddit thread, and now here?
I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.
Vaccinations are good. Super good. Super Duper Double Plus Tournament Edition Alpha ++ Good. Masks are also good. Masked vaccinated people take those really small odds of infection (let alone serious infection) and make them even smaller.
Many of the games that we play at Gencon reward (or are outright reliant upon) having multiple lines of defense. One Counterspell in my Magic deck is good, more of them is better. Even if some of the others aren't as good as the OG Counter, having more of them is better than not.
It's a small piece of fabric. I don't understand why some so vehemently act like they're forced to wear a barney themed ball gag covered in ghost pepper sauce. It's... a mask. We've been wearing them for the last year and a half. Is it ideal? No. Hopefully 2022 will be something more closely resembling business as usual, but if the current evidence is that it will help, even just a little bit, then let's do that, shall we?

Well said.

Posted by hahnarama

What's the over/under of this thread being locked by Friday? 

Posted by rich hahnarama

hahnarama wrote:
What's the over/under of this thread being locked by Friday? 

And throwing away the damn key.

You can take your half empty glass and do what you have to do, go or not go.
Or take the half full glass and make the best of it. These are the choices
when it all comes down to it.

Posted by rfsullivan tdb

tdb wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:
Something else that occurred to me about an all-vaccinated convention:
Gen Con might be waiting for full FDA approval of the vaccine, just to ensure they've got all the bases covered.
That approval might actually happen this month.

It's likely if FDA approval happens it will be too late for many people who aren't yet vaccinated to get it before the con.  What then?  Are those people just screwed out of their badges, tickets, and hotel cost? They've already indicated they won't issue refunds based on the mask requirement.

Honestly, reading between the lines of the most recent announcement makes it feel like GenCon is pretty much just waiting for someone else to be the bad guy re: mandatory vaccinations, like either Indiana demanding it for large gatherings or the CDC setting it as the new guidance. Anyone on the fence about the vaccination who considers GenCon to be the dealmaker should probably go ahead and get jabbed ASAP.

Posted by fethbone hahnarama

hahnarama wrote:
What's the over/under of this thread being locked by Friday? 

How do we determine that when there is no score? If you know how to, please also let me know the over/under for the OP's main goal of starting this thread being to stir the pot for entertainment. 

 

Posted by blueskyy fethbone

fethbone wrote:
hahnarama wrote:
What's the over/under of this thread being locked by Friday? 
How do we determine that when there is no score? If you know how to, please also let me know the over/under for the OP's main goal of starting this thread being to stir the pot for entertainment. 
 
I was not trying to stir the pot. Just trying to see what other people think before I invest in reserving parking, buying some nice colorful N95s for myself and my partner, whether to sign up for events or not, etc. etc.

I was looking forward to digging through some dice bins, personally, and really hope it is not cancelled. I am fully vaxxed and have been wearing N95s from my work since covid started.

Posted by fethbone blueskyy

blueskyy wrote:
fethbone wrote:
hahnarama wrote:
What's the over/under of this thread being locked by Friday? 
How do we determine that when there is no score? If you know how to, please also let me know the over/under for the OP's main goal of starting this thread being to stir the pot for entertainment. 
I was not trying to stir the pot. Just trying to see what other people think before I invest in reserving parking, buying some nice colorful N95s for myself and my partner, whether to sign up for events or not, etc. etc.I was looking forward to digging through some dice bins, personally, and really hope it is not cancelled. I am fully vaxxed and have been wearing N95s from my work since covid started.
Well, there you have it.

There is still plenty of entertainment to be had in the "Refund Info" thread. 

Personally, I do not think they will cancel, and I think the likelihood of Marion County re-instituting any kind of restrictions to the point where they would force GenCon to cancel is very low. If Gencon cancels, it will be on their own heads, and not because Marion County made them. Gencon aside, people have bought way too many Colts tickets to start emptying venues again.

Posted by papabees forar

forar wrote:Vaccinations are good. Super good. Super Duper Double Plus Tournament Edition Alpha ++ Good. Masks are also good. Masked vaccinated people take those really small odds of infection (let alone serious infection) and make them even smaller...

...It's a small piece of fabric. I don't understand why some so vehemently act like they're forced to wear a barney themed ball gag covered in ghost pepper sauce. It's... a mask. We've been wearing them for the last year and a half. Is it ideal? No. Hopefully 2022 will be something more closely resembling business as usual, but if the current evidence is that it will help, even just a little bit, then let's do that, shall we?

Uhmm. I am vaxxed. I think it is the correct path but lets not oversell them. The CDC director herself said they are not good at preventing transmission with Delta (CNN Wolf Blitzer interview). If you're vaxxed you are 50% less likely to get COVID.

Here the deal though. To get past this, truly get past it, we need strong otherwise healthy people to get sick so that the virus stops spreading. People that have natural antibody responses fight infection off. Vaccines mitigate symptoms. Which is a good thing because while we are waiting for people to get sick and recover we don't want to overwhelm hospitals. But we need to stop looking at infection numbers as they are largely irrelevant now with half the country vaxxed. The only numbers that really matter are hospitalizations and deaths.

The reason to not where a mask is to breath comfortably. They may not bother one person as much as another, but we need to stop vilifying people who are just sick of it. They suck.

The best course of action is to get highly vaxxed percentages then lose the masks so that healthy people get it and get over it. Then transmission will largely stop. If one is worried about catching or spreading the virus to vulnerable loved ones, what in the world are you doing coming to a gathering with 30-60k people???

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2_bdqizrT1_RXZtio7W7t1RKhRssP-EjNbw5a09O0FrXwOGkruHMLylJo

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/?fbclid=IwAR3ti8aNSumpJP2-X2JQ-lwV0oaVOcho20tKd5goyEn9GBh1rrhMyFhMgQw

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/?fbclid=IwAR0h91areyIxhNSHlZvKeQIXB3y7BIrOV9KpEIOj9wfoeA7RGlFzst5qeyg

 

Posted by beckydress papabees

papabees wrote:
forar wrote:Vaccinations are good. Super good. Super Duper Double Plus Tournament Edition Alpha ++ Good. Masks are also good. Masked vaccinated people take those really small odds of infection (let alone serious infection) and make them even smaller......It's a small piece of fabric. I don't understand why some so vehemently act like they're forced to wear a barney themed ball gag covered in ghost pepper sauce. It's... a mask. We've been wearing them for the last year and a half. Is it ideal? No. Hopefully 2022 will be something more closely resembling business as usual, but if the current evidence is that it will help, even just a little bit, then let's do that, shall we?
Uhmm. I am vaxxed. I think it is the correct path but lets not oversell them. The CDC director herself said they are not good at preventing transmission with Delta (CNN Wolf Blitzer interview). If you're vaxxed you are 50% less likely to get COVID.Here the deal though. To get past this, truly get past it, we need strong otherwise healthy people to get sick so that the virus stops spreading. People that have natural antibody responses fight infection off. Vaccines mitigate symptoms. Which is a good thing because while we are waiting for people to get sick and recover we don't want to overwhelm hospitals. But we need to stop looking at infection numbers as they are largely irrelevant now with half the country vaxxed. The only numbers that really matter are hospitalizations and deaths.
The reason to not where a mask is to breath comfortably. They may not bother one person as much as another, but we need to stop vilifying people who are just sick of it. They suck.
The best course of action is to get highly vaxxed percentages then lose the masks so that healthy people get it and get over it. Then transmission will largely stop. If one is worried about catching or spreading the virus to vulnerable loved ones, what in the world are you doing coming to a gathering with 30-60k people???
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2_bdqizrT1_RXZtio7W7t1RKhRssP-EjNbw5a09O0FrXwOGkruHMLylJo
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/?fbclid=IwAR3ti8aNSumpJP2-X2JQ-lwV0oaVOcho20tKd5goyEn9GBh1rrhMyFhMgQw
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/?fbclid=IwAR0h91areyIxhNSHlZvKeQIXB3y7BIrOV9KpEIOj9wfoeA7RGlFzst5qeyg
 

One thing you should consider is the risk of vaccine-resistant variants. With each additional person that is infected (vaccinated or not), that provides the virus with an opportunity to mutate. We've seen this at work with Delta, as you pointed out. We can't assume that the virus will remain unchanged if we allow it to infect a bunch of "healthy" people, and that it would eventually peter out. Rather, we're seeing that the virus is quite capable of mutating and infecting individuals multiple times. So the conventional wisdom of achieving herd immunity does not apply here. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210802/vaccination-alone-wont-stop-rise-of-resistant-variants

We're all trying to walk the tightrope of managing COVID-19 risk while going back to some of the things that we missed so much over the past few years. And it's really tough to make those calls - you're right that the safest option would be to not go to mass gatherings at all. Of our group of 10 that usually goes to GenCon, only 3 are going this year. We're mitigating our risk with vaccines, testing before and afterwards, and wearing masks properly the entire time. I want to do what I can to ensure that I don't put others at risk for my decision.

I'm not saying everyone needs to do what we're doing, but I think GenCon made a good decision about requiring masks again. I don't think anyone particularly enjoys them, but they're a small thing we can all do to help mitigate a risky environment.

Posted by raptorov

Yet, the Colts just announced on WTHR that it is full 100% capacity, mask optional. Status Quo Antebellum, just with more cleaning. Feels like an uphill battle.

Posted by hannman

Not to get political, but the US does not have a vaccine passport system at all like the EU has.  So requiring people to show proof of vaccine would be utter chaos.  There just isn't a way Gencon could manage this unless the United States had a nation wide vaccine passport.  The logistics of this just aren't otherwise possible.  

Posted by squirecam hannman

hannman wrote:
Not to get political, but the US does not have a vaccine passport system at all like the EU has.  So requiring people to show proof of vaccine would be utter chaos.  There just isn't a way Gencon could manage this unless the United States had a nation wide vaccine passport.  The logistics of this just aren't otherwise possible.  
States and venues are doing it now. For instance, MSG in New York. Or the Life is Beautiful festival in Las Vegas. It is possible and can be done.

Gencon has chosen masks for all instead, which is just as valid and easier to police. 

Posted by samlamiam

I'll wear a mask if they require it.  I'll wear a speedo if they require it.  Just don't cancel! 

Posted by matthias9 squirecam

squirecam wrote:Gencon has chosen masks for all instead, which is just as valid and easier to police. 

It's definitely not as valid.   Vaccines are far, far more effective. Not sure why we keep having to say that. 

And, as a manager of a busy public building, I would argue that masks are a lot LESS easy to police.  Many people don't wear them correctly. And others who do wear them correctly point out thr 'offenders' to staff so there can be lot of friction over that as you keep having to nag people to put it over their nose or whatever. 

Posted by matthias9 hannman

hannman wrote:
Not to get political, but the US does not have a vaccine passport system at all like the EU has.  So requiring people to show proof of vaccine would be utter chaos.  There just isn't a way Gencon could manage this unless the United States had a nation wide vaccine passport.  The logistics of this just aren't otherwise possible.  

I think this is an odd comment considering Gen Con was ALREADY planning to check vaccine status and give out wristbands denoting it. 

Posted by noone hannman

hannman wrote:
Not to get political, but the US does not have a vaccine passport system at all like the EU has.  So requiring people to show proof of vaccine would be utter chaos.  There just isn't a way Gencon could manage this unless the United States had a nation wide vaccine passport.  The logistics of this just aren't otherwise possible.  
you do know when you get the vaccine you also receive a card from the CDC showing your name, lot number of the vaccine and date of vaccine.  That is all you would need to show.

Posted by cinnibar matthias9

matthias9 wrote:
squirecam wrote:Gencon has chosen masks for all instead, which is just as valid and easier to police. 

It's definitely not as valid.   Vaccines are far, far more effective. Not sure why we keep having to say that. And, as a manager of a busy public building, I would argue that masks are a lot LESS easy to police.  Many people don't wear them correctly. And others who do wear them correctly point out thr 'offenders' to staff so there can be lot of friction over that as you keep having to nag people to put it over their nose or whatever. 

I'm fairly sure you are not told to check underwear and proper fitting pants and shirt and shoes at your work.    Much easier, isn't it, to just identify those with no shirt, no shoes?

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