The new survey...
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Posted by surrealrain elvinlord
#51

elvinlord wrote:
surrealrain wrote:
chaoticneutral262 wrote:
quarex wrote:
Anyone posting here barely disguising their disgust for people not like them might want to seriously consider whether you are part of the problem, though.

The above referenced Twitter thread is basically that.  The author, who appears to be influential in this survey, seems disgusted that Gen Con is "a mass of white, cis, mostly male presenting folks" and not enough "people like me".
How does making an effort to include more and different people negatively impact a group that historically has made up the majority of attendees? How is correcting the reasons people may feel unwelcome anything but a good thing for the hobby at large?
No one in this thread is saying Gen Con shouldn't market to as wide a group as possible, they absolutely should. No one is saying Gen Con shouldn't gather input from attendees to make the convention as comfortable and accommodating as possible, they absolutely should.What people are pointing out was that the survey was constructed clunky and awkward. It also seemed to have a per-drawn conclusion that the reason there are not more minority groups at Gen Con was that the current attendee base was somehow being exclusionary and not welcoming. That right there is just wrong. The vast majority of con goers are welcoming and inclusive. Most of use have been excluded and pushed to the side at one point. The only thing we care about, are you a gamer and here to have fun what ever bend that might take? Ok cool lets sit down and game, or watch movies or go petal a beer car around the city.
If Gen Con wants to point finger they should point them right back at themselves. The powers that be at Gen Con are responsible for marketing. It falls on them to spend their marketing dollars to try to attract different minority groups. It will be interesting to see if they actually get any useful suggestions out of the survey. Helpful suggestion if you put out future surveys like this, just put a screener question upfront which states “We are trying to gather information relevant to increasing attendance of XYZ group. Do you think you can provide valuable insight towards this goal? Yes/No. Clicking no will take you to the general audience questions.” Word your questions without preconceive bias. Saves everyone time and you gather better data in the end.
Nothing in the survey seemed to blame the attendees though. It simply asked if there were problems of any kind noticed, and what Gen Con could do to address them. 

Posted by elvinlord surrealrain
#52

 
Nothing in the survey seemed to blame the attendees though. It simply asked if there were problems of any kind noticed, and what Gen Con could do to address them. 
The splash page where they encourage people to take survey states they will use the info gathered to make changes including to code of conduct.  Gencon does not change the coc to regulate itself it is to change attendee conduct hence blaming attendees.  While it may certainly be possible they only blame themselves I won't hold my breath.

Posted by malfakter
#53

I did not care for how this survey was presented, either.  Many of the questions did not have options that applied to me.  I think they should have had text boxes on all of the questions that were multiple choice, since most of those options were not what I've experienced or encompassed any of my concerns about the subject matter.  I, too, didn't answer #12.  Overall, I think they could have done a much better job with it.  I answered what I could and was allowed to answer, though.

Posted by vulcanspock surrealrain
#54

surrealrain wrote:
 Groups who are historically excluded from the hobby, or who are discriminated against generally, need explicit welcome. It's not enough to just say "everyone is welcome" because that often comes with strings attached. 

It seems like the survey was a lot about LGBT issues and that isn't me.

But, as a female and multi-racial attendee, I find this comment to be somewhat offensive.  We need explicit welcome?  That's basically saying we aren't welcome into spaces unless specifically invited.  Do you hear yourself?

What you and this survey are doing wrong is 'othering' us.  And, if you aren't familiar with the concept, look it up.  I've never felt like an outsider at the convention until now.  I'd like to just show up at the convention and not feel like I have to put on a diversity show for you so that you can feel better about how inclusive you are.

As others have said here, you can market to underrepresented communities especially if your demographic info shows need to do so.  But that's a lot different than pointing at those of us here and saying look how different they are.  That's like a gaming table that says OMG A GIRL IS GOING TO PLAY WITH US.  I've never had that experience at Gen Con and I don't want to.

Posted by brewski
#55

I felt the survey was pigeon holeing me to a direction. Some questions had no answer for me to select. Probably why it didnt finish for me.

Posted by surrealrain vulcanspock
#56

mollymolly wrote:
surrealrain wrote:
 Groups who are historically excluded from the hobby, or who are discriminated against generally, need explicit welcome. It's not enough to just say "everyone is welcome" because that often comes with strings attached. 

It seems like the survey was a lot about LGBT issues and that isn't me.But, as a female and multi-racial attendee, I find this comment to be somewhat offensive.  We need explicit welcome?  That's basically saying we aren't welcome into spaces unless specifically invited.  Do you hear yourself?
What you and this survey are doing wrong is 'othering' us.  And, if you aren't familiar with the concept, look it up.  I've never felt like an outsider at the convention until now.  I'd like to just show up at the convention and not feel like I have to put on a diversity show for you so that you can feel better about how inclusive you are.
As others have said here, you can market to underrepresented communities especially if your demographic info shows need to do so.  But that's a lot different than pointing at those of us here and saying look how different they are.  That's like a gaming table that says OMG A GIRL IS GOING TO PLAY WITH US.  I've never had that experience at Gen Con and I don't want to.
So, you did not take my meaning, and I'll clarify. Explicit support is more accurate to what I'm saying than is welcome.

Saying "everyone is welcome" does not address the historical exclusion of certain groups, and does nothing to address implicit exclusivity. Spaces that have been primarily populated by cis hetero white males can feel unwelcoming if one doesn't fit into those categories. That's why I'm wary of going into game stores, comic shops, etc, that aren't explicit in their support for other populations. It's all well and good to say everyone is welcome, but being clearly anti-racist/LGBTQIA+ supporting/anti-misogynist and so on makes it much more comfortable and safer to enter and participate. I've been in shops where "everyone is welcome" that just turned a blind eye to creepy and transphobic comments, and at cons where "everyone is welcome" and no one did anything about racists making nasty remarks at Black cosplayers.

Again, the survey was oddly worded in places, but exactly how are potential problems to be addressed if they aren't pointed out? 

Posted by qwaserity vulcanspock
#57

Mollymolly, you made me spit up my morning drink. At GenCon Last this 52 year old Brony sat at a table and played the My Little Pony role playing game with five girls ages 8-10. OMG A BRONY IS GOING TO PLAY WITH US!
Their parents looked at me weird and one father even stayed nearby to watch out for his daughter. But once the dice started rolling and I started talking like Rarity the father gave me a knowing nod and sunk deep into his newspaper.

Posted by aaronmlopez
#58

This may not be popular, but you will NEVER be all-inclusive and treat others equally until you learn to stop identifying and pointing out people by their differences and truly see them all as the same. If we continue to focus on our differences, then we are going nowhere. 

Posted by timjs21 aaronmlopez
#59

aaronmlopez wrote:
This may not be popular, but you will NEVER be all-inclusive and treat others equally until you learn to stop identifying and pointing out people by their differences and truly see them all as the same. If we continue to focus on our differences, then we are going nowhere. 
Well said!

Posted by cinnibar
#60

I admit, I paused with the claim to be able to look around and identify not male-presenting, not white, but identify 'cis' on sight.  Still, that's not a deal-breaker for writing a poll....though this one could have used more work before publishing.

Posted by surrealrain aaronmlopez
#61

aaronmlopez wrote:
This may not be popular, but you will NEVER be all-inclusive and treat others equally until you learn to stop identifying and pointing out people by their differences and truly see them all as the same. If we continue to focus on our differences, then we are going nowhere. 
That, however, erases the differences in experience that different groups/people have navigating the world. Like it or not, white, cis, straight, able bodied, neurotypical, and male is considered 'default' in most cases, and those that don't fit into one or more of those categories have different experiences. Equality only works when systemic barriers have been removed. Equity takes into account differences and accounts for them, which pretty much requires asking marginalized groups about what can be done better.

Assuming everything is fine doesn't help, and doesn't identify problems that may be apparent to some and invisible to others. And the survey is trying to identify places that could use fine tuning.

As far as placing blame on the attendees, I don't see it doing so when 'one of' the areas being asked about is the code of conduct. Checking to see that things are working as intended in several areas doesn't imply blame on anyone. It's checking to see if things are working.

Posted by cinnibar
#62

Except, as noted, the poll didn't ask if things were working.  Please don't invent excuses for the poll in this, it needed work, we understand.  Hopefully a second one will come out that will not have the faults identified here.

Better wording for a better poll for better overview of what needs to and can be done.

Better for everyone.

Posted by quarex
#63

I do like that we all agree the survey should not have wasted the time of the people who think everything is great and we should stop pretending people are different.

Posted by xanathon
#64

This survey shows the biggest issue with this so called "woke" generation.  They believe that they are enlightened, but they walk around with their delusions of what inclusion and diversity actually means.  They focus on whatever special interest group, minority, or sexual orientation they are or identify with while ignoring anyone that isn't them.

The survey should have neve?r gone out in the form that it was as it makes a mockery of what diversity is actually supposed to be.

Gen Con is obviously focused on the LGBTQ segment and everyone else is second class or not as important to them.  They can claim that is not the case, but the survey made it obvious that is the case otherwise why place the focus on the LGBTQ segment?

I get that members of the LGBTQ society do face public ridicule and other pressures in their lives that the rest of us do not.  However Gen Con should simply go back to treating all attendees the same and stop segmenting the attendees.  It could come back to bite them in the arse.

As I have stated earlier in this thread I have attended each Gen Con since 2001.  I have never had any issues with sitting down with anyone at a gaming table.  I don't care what the color of your skin is, what religion you belong to, or what your sexual orientation is.  You could even have a third eye in the middle of your forehead.  I might need some time to get used to that, but as long as you are there to have fun in whatever event you are participating with me we are good.  

Posted by vulcanspock surrealrain
#65

 

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