Health and Safety Info 2023
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Posted by mikeboozer armored badger

armored badger wrote:
Does this affect things that are controlled by Gen Con, such as the auction and the game library?

It does not. Only Events.

Posted by tpir traveller

traveller wrote:
danmcneill wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
Q&A information:
What happens if I go to an event, and they ask me to wear a mask and I refuse to do so? 
Wearing a mask at the convention is optional, so the EO cannot require that you wear a mask at their event. With this in mind, we request that you and the EO are polite to one another while you resolve the matter. However, if the EO persists, you should contact the nearest Event HQ to have them resolve the situation. Alternatively, in order to ensure that GM and players are comfortable, it is probably best to find another event without this request.    (highlighting is my own here)
Mike, thank you for listening to all voices in formulating this policy and Q&A.  While I'm sure it wasn't the intent, what this has done is create a disconnect between show policy and sub-policy within the different aspects of the show.  GenCon policy states that all are welcome regardless of mask preference.  But this sub-policy states very clearly that this will not always apply.  Effectively this creates a situation where those who choose to wear masks are welcomed everywhere and those who do not might not be. Running the risk of being overly dramatic, it teeters on the edge of being discriminatory because it allows individuals in a position of authority to effectively exclude people for reasons that are not supported by the broader show policy. I understand that no policy is going to please everyone, but I figured I'd at least share a perspective that the team might not have considered.

So I'm not clear on the issue you are trying to raise.  GC policy is that masks are not required.  You may wear a mask if you want or don't wear one if you don't want to.  You don't get to demand someone else wear/don't wear one.
Yes, that's my point exactly.  But in this instance EOs can "soft demand" that someone wear one because the options are either you choose to wear one if asked or find a different event to play in.  I guess there's a third option of politely decline and spend the next 2-4 hours immersed in an awkward situation, but that's not really a good option.

Posted by kevinrg mikeboozer

mikeboozer wrote:
armored badger wrote:
Does this affect things that are controlled by Gen Con, such as the auction and the game library?

It does not. Only Events.

You buy tickets to the library so, is that not an event?  So the library could put the 'requested' notation if they so desired.  (Not that I expect them to)

Posted by armored badger kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
armored badger wrote:
Does this affect things that are controlled by Gen Con, such as the auction and the game library?

It does not. Only Events.

You buy tickets to the library so, is that not an event?  So the library could put the 'requested' notation if they so desired.  (Not that I expect them to)

It is my understanding that the library's EO is Gen Con and that they would go with the same thought as the exhibit hall, which is to follow the policy listed in Health and Safety

Posted by gib_rebeg mikeboozer

mikeboozer wrote:"Everyone" did not get their events in, but many did. We usually have 15K to 20K events.

Retroactively looking at all of them is not happening.We do not post the event list until it has been vetted and ready. Confusion and chaos would ensue if we did that as changes that need to be made on so many fronts are required to be vetted.

The fact that many EO's have already submitted their Events and not inquired about asking to mask at the tables is telling.
Mike


Just to maybe help ease fears on this Mike, looking at the number of events submitted so far, are we on par with last years events, more than last year or coming up a bit short.

If we are on par or more events have been submitted, then it would show that the policy is not a concern of EO.

Posted by lanogironu tpir

danmcneill wrote:Yes, that's my point exactly.  But in this instance EOs can "soft demand" that someone wear one because the options are either you choose to wear one if asked or find a different event to play in.  I guess there's a third option of politely decline and spend the next 2-4 hours immersed in an awkward situation, but that's not really a good option.

No EO or GM can soft demand anything. Stop making up hypothetical unlikely situations to cry about. 
If a GM tries to soft demand you wear a mask, you say no. 99% or better of the time that will it and things will go on like normal. There is literally, and I mean this literally, always a potential for a GM or player to be an asshole. Like, that's just how people work. If it's not a mask there's ALWAYS been something that can trigger awkwardness or rife there or between other players. To me it sounds like you're projecting that it's very unlikely for you to enjoy a game in which a GM requests a mask, and if you are unwilling to wear one for the time of that event (surely implying you didn't care too much for the event anyway - because if you REALLY wanted to the do the event, you'd accept a polite mask request without throwing a fit) then worst case you get your money back, get a little game time, and I guess get an extra long meal break.

And Mike has already said there's 0 tolerance; so if the GM is being rude about it then you still get money back and they're probably banned from running events for a while. Seems GenCon is just trying to trust people to not be jerks to each other.

It's a very simple flow. If event says masks requested then you skip it or plan a mask. If an event didn't say that, you attend, and a GM asks for masks (super unlikely based on events so far) then you either put on a mask and play happily or say no. If you say no and can't play happily, you get a refund and leave the event. If you say no and they make a big deal of it, you get GC staff involved and the GM is probably gone and you still get a refund. 

Posted by kevinrg armored badger


Always thought the library was a couple 3rd party groups that did it so they were the EO's.  (kind of like the auction which isn't 'Gencon' itself doing the work).   Curious is all.
 

Posted by mikeboozer gib_rebeg

gib_rebeg wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:"Everyone" did not get their events in, but many did. We usually have 15K to 20K events.Retroactively looking at all of them is not happening.We do not post the event list until it has been vetted and ready. Confusion and chaos would ensue if we did that as changes that need to be made on so many fronts are required to be vetted.
The fact that many EO's have already submitted their Events and not inquired about asking to mask at the tables is telling.
Mike

Just to maybe help ease fears on this Mike, looking at the number of events submitted so far, are we on par with last years events, more than last year or coming up a bit short.If we are on par or more events have been submitted, then it would show that the policy is not a concern of EO.

It is no different then any other years. Lot's of Events being submitted.

Mike

Posted by tpir lanogironu

lanigironu wrote:
danmcneill wrote:Yes, that's my point exactly.  But in this instance EOs can "soft demand" that someone wear one because the options are either you choose to wear one if asked or find a different event to play in.  I guess there's a third option of politely decline and spend the next 2-4 hours immersed in an awkward situation, but that's not really a good option.

No EO or GM can soft demand anything. Stop making up hypothetical unlikely situations to cry about. 
If a GM tries to soft demand you wear a mask, you say no. 99% or better of the time that will it and things will go on like normal. There is literally, and I mean this literally, always a potential for a GM or player to be an asshole. Like, that's just how people work. If it's not a mask there's ALWAYS been something that can trigger awkwardness or rife there or between other players. To me it sounds like you're projecting that it's very unlikely for you to enjoy a game in which a GM requests a mask, and if you are unwilling to wear one for the time of that event (surely implying you didn't care too much for the event anyway - because if you REALLY wanted to the do the event, you'd accept a polite mask request without throwing a fit) then worst case you get your money back, get a little game time, and I guess get an extra long meal break.And Mike has already said there's 0 tolerance; so if the GM is being rude about it then you still get money back and they're probably banned from running events for a while. Seems GenCon is just trying to trust people to not be jerks to each other.
It's a very simple flow. If event says masks requested then you skip it or plan a mask. If an event didn't say that, you attend, and a GM asks for masks (super unlikely based on events so far) then you either put on a mask and play happily or say no. If you say no and can't play happily, you get a refund and leave the event. If you say no and they make a big deal of it, you get GC staff involved and the GM is probably gone and you still get a refund. 
You make a lot of assertions and assumptions here, none of which are even remotely accurate.  I purposely went out of my way to be respectful in my post and keep it about the broader issue; I would appreciate it if you would do the same.
 

Posted by mikeboozer tpir

danmcneill wrote:
lanigironu wrote:
danmcneill wrote:Yes, that's my point exactly.  But in this instance EOs can "soft demand" that someone wear one because the options are either you choose to wear one if asked or find a different event to play in.  I guess there's a third option of politely decline and spend the next 2-4 hours immersed in an awkward situation, but that's not really a good option.

No EO or GM can soft demand anything. Stop making up hypothetical unlikely situations to cry about. 
If a GM tries to soft demand you wear a mask, you say no. 99% or better of the time that will it and things will go on like normal. There is literally, and I mean this literally, always a potential for a GM or player to be an asshole. Like, that's just how people work. If it's not a mask there's ALWAYS been something that can trigger awkwardness or rife there or between other players. To me it sounds like you're projecting that it's very unlikely for you to enjoy a game in which a GM requests a mask, and if you are unwilling to wear one for the time of that event (surely implying you didn't care too much for the event anyway - because if you REALLY wanted to the do the event, you'd accept a polite mask request without throwing a fit) then worst case you get your money back, get a little game time, and I guess get an extra long meal break.And Mike has already said there's 0 tolerance; so if the GM is being rude about it then you still get money back and they're probably banned from running events for a while. Seems GenCon is just trying to trust people to not be jerks to each other.
It's a very simple flow. If event says masks requested then you skip it or plan a mask. If an event didn't say that, you attend, and a GM asks for masks (super unlikely based on events so far) then you either put on a mask and play happily or say no. If you say no and can't play happily, you get a refund and leave the event. If you say no and they make a big deal of it, you get GC staff involved and the GM is probably gone and you still get a refund. 
You make a lot of assertions and assumptions here, none of which are even remotely accurate.  I purposely went out of my way to be respectful in my post and keep it about the broader issue; I would appreciate it if you would do the same.

Ok, lets tone it down lanigironu, we are getting a little personal.

I'll reiterate that Gen Con does not believe this will be a big issue in practice.

Hovering over the lock the thread button at this point.

I think the essential points have been made.

Mike

 

Posted by watchdog

Mike, thank you for answering my question. 

Posted by mikeboozer

Locking this topic.

We will not be allowing another Events/masking topic to be opened on these forums.

If you have questions you can email [email protected] 

If you're an EO you should email [email protected]

Mike

This topic is locked. New posts cannot be added.
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